MMORPG expansions don’t appear out of thin air, although it might appear so from the player side of things. Two developers behind Lord of the Rings Online took the opportunity of a recent hour-long “We Have a Cave Troll” podcast to share how these hideously complex content updates come into being.

Lead Designer Allan “Orion” Maki and Senior World Designer Matt “Scenario” Elliott walked viewers through the step-by-step process for each LOTRO expansion pack, from concept to research to creation to testing. It’s a fun, laid-back discussion that you can listen to below:

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